On the other hand I don’t think it is ignorant to talk about the skill levels to produce a really good Pilsner. Ales are more complex because of the yeast they use, which allows the various ingredients to shine through in different ways.

Lager brewing is a different exercise. Brewing lager is an underrated skill – one of the reasons it is brewed mainly by the multinationals is because they are, all prejudices of the style aside, supremely skilled in brewing. (Why they use their skills as they do is another argument).

And complex beer isn’t necessarily better. Complexity often is the curse of good ales – my personal preference is for ales that are just complex enough without ruining the overall palate. That’s just me.

I agree that judging beers, even with the assistance of style guidelines, remains an unavoidably subjective experience. Without the guidelines, it is nothing but subjective. The issue I took with the list, especially as it was created by people who profess a deep interest in beer (or at least one strong enough to nerd out and review on a website), is that it didn’t contain a single lager beer. And while I understand that people new to beer can more easily access the blunt flavors found in many booze/hop/barrel bombs, it disturbs me that these same beer lovers can’t find their way round to rating certain lager beers the tops in their respective categories (with scores on par with at least the bottom 10-percent of that list). You sort of make my point for me by saying that you give higher scores to styles you enjoy. If the lists are wholly subjective, they’re of next to no use besides an alcohol popularity contest (which in truth is probably what they are). As I’ve said before, I don’t particularly care for roasted flavors (not a coffee drinker either) and porter is one of my least favorite styles. With that said, as a beer lover I can recognize the best examples of the style and wouldn’t hesitate, if I rated beers, to give them a score on par with the best IPA’s or imperial stouts. To do otherwise is to render the whole process nothing more than a personal parlor game. Fine for a person’s own website but not particularly enlightening when used in promotional materials or as part of a self-professed list of the world’s best beers…

Cheers,

Andy

I think it’s impossible to divorce the community members from the websites in this particular instance. So when I criticize RB, I’m not slamming Joe Tucker or anyone, but indeed critiquing the community of raters who led to the results of the list. With RB in particular, the ratings are nearly the sole purpose of the site, as compared with BeerAdvocate and its festivals and publication (for which I write as you likely know, for disclosure purposes). And I don’t believe my point was that consumers or their palates are being deceived, just that they have a disproportionately positive opinion of higher alcohol/hop/barrel beers as compared to those of other styles. As I’ve said in my book and in dozens of columns, people should drink what they like. The point of this brief aside was to note the oddity that is the total absence of lager beers on that particular list and how that is wildly unbalanced in the beer world. This isn’t an argument it’s just an observation. That these beers personally bore me was a transition to the next column idea where I discuss a need to redefine extreme beer away from the unholy (and yawn-inducing) trinity…

Cheers,

Andy

I agree with the latter point in your post, but I take issue with the first part.

Isn’t this a commentary on the beer drinking community rather than the web sites themselves, given that ratebeer and BeerAdvocate are community-driven sites? Perhaps you’re saying this when you write “the beer geek addiction to alcohol, hop, and barrel bombs is not only disturbing but I just can’t bring myself to even feign interest in them at this point.” My issue is that you’re calling out the site in the heading when your issue really seems to be with the consumers themselves.

From what I read, it sounds like you’re basically saying that consumers’ palates have been deceived and they don’t really like what they’re drinking, they’re just supposed to think they do, and that what they should really be reaching for is a more tempered, traditional style beer with a broader base. In summary, I’m picking up that you’re not happy that people are enjoying drinking what they’re drinking and, unless you have a vested interest in consumers branching out from these styles, I don’t understand the argument.

I’ll concede that the cost-to-revenue ratio is probably not as high, but I’m thinking that the breweries are making that up in volume. In producing limited edition beers and stoking the hype that accompanies them, they are artificially creating a very strong demand for these high-priced beers.

I also believe that some breweries purposely inflating their retail prices because they know they have a rabid following; they are testing the limits of supply-and-demand.

Case-in-point: there is a well-known brewery here in the Chicago area that brews one of my favorite beers. I used to be able to buy this beer for $5.99/6-pk. (a great deal, to be sure). Now I can’t touch this beer for under $10.99/6-pk. The fact that I (and presumably others) refuse to buy that beer anymore has had zero impact on the brewery in question…they can’t brew enough to keep the shelves full.

Cheers!
-Marty Nachel

My understanding, as many of the extreme brewers like to tell it, is that they actually don’t make much profit on the bigger beers they sell. Now that may be because of tying up tank space, increased ingredient cost, or other such variables, but I think it mainly has to do with the fact that the extreme beer market is a niche of a niche of a…You might be able to sell a batch or two of something extreme but otherwise you’ve pretty much saturated your market straight through and frankly there are only a limited number of folks willing to spend >$10 on a bomber (and I’m not one of them for the record…). Now I personally think there is too much value on the lower end of the price spectrum to justify such prices (not to mention I think the quality of such beers is correspondingly low) but the overwhelming bulk of craft beer consumers aren’t even aware of these limited release beers….Now a Prima Pils knockoff could do some real damage…

Cheers,

Andy

I have been wondering for a while just when the pendulum will swing for the broader culture of craft-beer drinkers, i.e., when they will start to appreciate subtlety and move away (at least a bit) from huge, hoppy beers.